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#1780 11/30/2020 09:24 AM
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Hello, I joined recently and am looking for some guidance.
I got what I thought was a great deal on a Cadtrac and the trailer it was on. There is a problem. After a short while the machine slows down until it won't move at all. the bucket remains operable. The 4 wheel drive doesn't work either. It does not have the newer set up that uses a foot operated valve for travel control. Every thing is controlled by joystick.
The tank temperature get up to about 165 degrees and the temp at the pump is 220 degrees. I wrote to cadplans and this is what he told me: "Usually the only thing that gets the oil that hot is an improperly plumbed power beyond valve.
If there is a power beyond (normally on the loader control valve) that port MUST be plumbed to return to the tank.

The improper thing to do is PLUG the power beyond port.

The other, less frequent mistake is to run the supply from the pump into the outlet of the valve.
then, the inlet of the valve is used as the return.

Good luck. " I am attaching an image of the control valve. what or where is the "power beyond valve and where does the supply line attach? thank you all so very much.
[Linked Image]

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First up is ----- does your valve even have the power beyond feature? -- not all valves do and that is the first thing to find out. Also if your system pressure is set high you will have heat problems. Most of the systems I have here range from 1500 to 2500 psi and they work fine. Some newer systems can go to 3000 or so, but must have cooling capacity to handle the heat. does your machine have a large hyd. tank or small one? --- bigger is always better in hyd. tank sizes.

would you track all of the hoses in your pic and label them for us?--- that would be of great help!


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sonny #1787 11/30/2020 02:24 PM
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I will try to get them labeled this evening. Thanks .

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It should only have a power beyond valve on it if the outlet flow that would normally return to the tank, it instead going to another downstream valve circuit. A power beyond valve vs a normal valve can be as simple as removing a fitting and screwing in a different one. You may not be able to tell from just looking.

What you really need is a pressure gague going into the valve between the pump and the valve. A restriction in the line is what will heat up fluid, this restriction could be the fluid going through it's normal processes at too high a pressure, or it could be a system that is plumbed to with a closed return. In that case the pressure would build until the relief pressure was hit and then the relief valve would let the fluid go back to the tank. In that case the pressure between the pump and the valve would alwaye be high even when nothing is being used. The hydraulic presure when nothing is moving shoudl be under 400 psi, or even lower. You can get all the fittings and a gauge from surplus center to check your pressures.

My machine is different, and I have a 2 section valve, I have a gauge on the line going to the lift valve, and one on the wheel circuit. That way when either loads up I can see what is causing the restriction. My pressure reliefs are set differently also.

Does this machine use a flow divider to split the flow? Its been a long time since I studied the Cad Trac designs.

I am also going to move this over to the CadTrac section.

Last edited by GatorS; 11/30/2020 04:25 PM.

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Go to this site and print the jic identification sheet off

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Tech-Help/Hydraulics/Thread-Identification/JIC/

You have either jic 6 or 8 most likely going into the valve. Whichever it is go back on their site and get a tee with fittings to hook to a 3000 psi gauge. Hook that up and see what your pressures are doing at idle,driving, loading etc. this will help us know where to look for the issue


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GatorS #1798 12/02/2020 06:12 PM
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Thanks for the tip...its printed...but now I think it needs a new battery. Deader n a doornail today. Also, it does use a flow divider. Half goes to the loader valve and half goes to the travel valve. the out from the loader valve tees into the in for the travel valve. The out (return) from the travel valve goes to the filter and from the filter back to the reservoir. I read somewhere that bot the feed to the pump and the return should enter through the bottom of the tank to reduce or eliminate the chance of bubbles. Both on my machine enter the tank through the top. What is your opinion on that? it is an older unit and has a tubular tank that I read some where holds about 7 gallons.




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The oil return should come back in the tank under the fluid level so it doesn't mix with air. You would have milky looking oil or foam if that was happening. That would also be bad for the pump.


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what hydraulic oil are you running in the machine? I run ISO46 in my hyd drive machine with no issues with foaming..all return ports and motor case drain come into the tank near the oil line but have a 'plenum' or baffle that prevent it from getting drawn into the pump without circulating first..simply a section of 3x3 box tubing with one long side cut out, it forms a "C" welded inside against the wall of the tank where the return ports are..deflects the oil away from the suction port area..is this Cadtrak built to the engineering drawings or has it been built differently or modified?

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Feeling sheepish.. I finally opened the hydraulic tank. There were plenty of bubbles. Then I noticed that the bubbles looked pretty far away. so I added and added fluid. Bought a new jug and added some more! I am pretty sure that it was closing in on 2 gallons. I haven't taken the temps yet, but 4 wheel drive has returned. I still need to change the filter for the hydraulics yet.....any suggestions there would be helpful.....I can't make out the numbers on the current filter. Speaking of the fluid, would running synthetic be of any benefit here?? Also, I was moving some wet dirt and mud would collect on the tires only to be scraped off by the frame where the platform that my feet rest on. What a mess. It also gets scraped off where the cooling air has to get into the engine. While I could make some sort of scrapers, I think that 2 inch wheel spacers would or likely would take care of it. Will the hubs survive the stress of adding the wheel spacers? Thanks for the advice!

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Running low on fluid isn't good hopefully you didn't damage anything. I would change the oil in the engine and the hydraulic fluid.

Take the filter off and go to napa, they should be able to find something. No way to know what your machine has on it. I would guess that no two are exactly alike.

Wheel spacers: as light as it is I don't thing it will hurt it. Spacers do increase the load on the wheel motor bearings.


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GatorS #1822 12/07/2020 11:18 PM
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Thanks for the info.

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running low on fluid possibly you had air entrapped in the drive circuits causing inop hyd motors..if they are plumbed in series like I remember the CadTrak was they would do that until it purged the air. how did the machine lose the oil fluid? is there a leak or broken fitting somewhere? even a slow drip will leak out gallons over a month period of time.

Looking at your picture of the valve it sure doesnt look to be a power beyond valve,they usually have a bigger monoblock casting with two or more BIG ports that get one or other pipe plugs installed- one gives you standard 4-way operation, you remove that plug and reinstall the power beyond plug and it redirects return flow to this power beyond port,which is seperate from the return port on that valve. It sure looks from your valve photo as tho you have a standard valve and someone has plumbed the return port with a flow restrictor or wye fitting from what I can see which may be backing up the pump's flow and causing the heating issues you have..I run a power beyond valve for my steer circuits and the loader functions are power beyond downstream from that..when you move the steer valve, the loader stops until you stop steering then the loader functions return,except for down on the loader,that just dumps pressure into the return.They hold position until you stop the steer function. Maybe someone who built the machine went cheap and used a standard valve they had instead of the proper power beyond valve.Just a guess.

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I appreciate the helpful trouble shooting. I was out playing in the dirt with it tonight and it was doing okay and I didn't notice it at the time, but the temp at the pump went to 200+ again. Right now I want to get the fittings and the gauges to check the pressure in the system. This machine does not have a valve on the floor board. Right hand controls all the bucket movement, left hand steers and controls forward and backwards. there isn't a return line directly from the right hand valve (bucket controls) Where the fluid exits that valve it goes over and 't's into the supply line for the directional controlling valve. Then the fluid is routed out the one "out" hose on the travel (left) side and that igoes into a 't' fitting with the used fluid from the wheel motors and then into the filter and then to the tank.

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I think this is built pretty much to the plans except there is no valve mounted to the floor board.

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That is a very complicated way of running simple circuits in my book. I would study up on a different way to get the returns back into 1 collector box. "T" fittings are not good and to have that many----well not good. T causes deadheading. "Y" fittings pointed in direction of flow would be much better. something is either back feeding pressure where it cant be or some other restriction down the line is causing pressure where its not s'posed to be.


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Kevin here's a pic of my power beyond valve,the big plug on the left-(top side here)-side of the valve body is the power beyond port,it comes factory with a plug in it,you remove the plug and thread in the power beyond plug which redirects internally the flow of fluid to the port..its a pretty big plug,should be pretty obvious on your valve if it has a PB port for one.All the power beyond valves I've seen have one of these plug setups.You can see the PB plug right behind the fitting labeled 'power beyond'..normally it's blocked off with a big closed plug.When the valve ships from the manufacturer it has the plug in it and will function as-is like a standard 4-way valve,if you need power beyond then you insert the PB plug and plumb to downstream valves as necessary.

Sorry for the sideways photos Im having issues with my photo editor and my eyesight is not getting any better
[Linked Image from kuhnbros.com]

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I got the fittings and gauges that GatorS recommended. I had the beast running one day last week and the pump got hot very quickly. I contacted Honor for a rebuild kit and found out that the pump was probably old when it was installed and rebuild kits are no longer available. So I ordered a new pump and it got here today after dark so nothing else happened except for changing the filters for the engine oil and the hydraulic oil. I did change the engine oil. Tomorrow I hope to change the hydraulic fluid and the pump. If it does not function properly, I will put the gauges to work and see what is what. With the coming snow I dare to hope that all will be working properly! Thank You for your help bunkclimber.

sonny #1860 12/15/2020 07:27 PM
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I got the fittings and gauges that GatorS recommended. I had the beast running one day last week and the pump got hot very quickly. I contacted Honor for a rebuild kit and found out that the pump was probably old when it was installed and rebuild kits are no longer available. So I ordered a new pump and it got here today after dark so nothing else happened except for changing the filters for the engine oil and the hydraulic oil. I did change the engine oil. Tomorrow I hope to change the hydraulic fluid and the pump. If it does not function properly, I will put the gauges to work and see what is what. With the coming snow I dare to hope that all will be working properly! Thank You for your help sonny.

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if the oil(fluid)is getting hot that quickly without working it you definitely have a restriction problem.You may want to even just go ahead and replace the valve,it might be a unidentifiable old closed center valve or something that doesn't belong on the machine..A closed center valve backs the pressure up against the relief in the valve body until the (handle)spool moves then the system works against the load. Very common on farm tractors and such,it responds quicker than a open center system..Each system has different valve designs.An open center valve continuously moves oil thru the system,until the valve spool moves then the oil goes to the work and backs up against the work or load until the system hits the relief valve pressure..sounds like you might have the wrong valve installed..just a thought. SurplusCenter (IMHO) has the best deals and selection on valves. I just got a spare pump for my mini articulated loader there,two section pump for about $75..hard to find pump too..I shoulda ordered a spare when I first built it. Thier website has a lot of useful tech info on hydraulics there as well. Best of luck. Merry Christmas,yes Im not afraid to say it.

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Is there any books like "
hydraulics for dummies"?

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What pressure did you get on the gauge going into the first valve with no levers pulled. Should be less that 500, hopefully less than 100. If you get like 2000 or so then you are dead heading the pump and flow is going through the pressure relief back to the tank. This is what Bunk is describing above. Show us a pic of your gauge setup so we can make sure you have it plumbed right.

Need to check these pressures before you start replacing things. Don't want to troubleshoot by replacement.


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"Hydraulics for dummies" ? the fact you are asking a question rules out that you are a dummy. Just check out the tech info section at Surplus Center, it spells out many answers to common hydraulic questions you may have.

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Originally Posted by Kevin Werner
the out from the loader valve tees into the in for the travel valve.

kinda spells trouble to me with open center system-you can have possible pressure doubling when you open a pressure loaded hydraulic circuit into another in series..each valve should have a separate return/out path back to the tank..Sounds like a flow divider might be missing ahead of the valves and was replumbed in series just to make it work,on top of using the wrong valve too..you never know with used equipment. I would check into how it's SUPPOSED to be plumbed..maybe modifications were made early on,or someone didnt build this to print properly to begin with. The Tee at the return side of the valve is causing a huge bottleneck with flow and may be the culprit. if you have to add returns,add them right at the tank..My loader isnt a cadtrac but I have all (3) 3/4"valve returns ported thru two tank ports at my hydraulic tank,works fine,minimal flow resistance right at the tank

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Pulled the pump and found the leak....pump was leaking at the shaft. Hopefully I'll get it all back together before dark.

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Got the new pump installed. Everything wants to work but as for traveling it wants to stall the engine if i try to turn the unit and forward or backwards is very jumpy. Tomorrow I hope to get some pressure testing done. My gut feeling is that the amount of pressure the valves are dealing with is off/too much. Back to the power beyond valve. Does it act kind of like a regulator, making sure that there is enough pressure to power the functions of the valve and the excess volume/pressure is then diverted to another auxiliary circuit as opposed to just being returned to the tank by the "out" line? Instead of the B&S 18 horsepower engine the plans call for, it has a 20 horsepower Kohler. The travel control valve is part of the steering valve instead of on the floorboard. The joy sticks are identical FPS valves. Right now I'm pretty pissed with it.

How has your Saturday gone? Any packages show up?

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1. valves dont use pressure to control work,they just direct flow..the flow pressure backs up and increases thru the valve due to load being moved, ie:-cylinder extending to lift a load or a motor moving trying to rotate,propel or move something.Your pressures at rest (not moving) should be minimal,if you are seeing pressures and the motor lugging down at rest then you definitely have a problem in valving or plumbing. The only thing a valve uses pressure for is to actuate the relief valve (in it if equipped)-to open it for a high-pressure relief bypass back to the tank. Flow should be straight thru from the pump or flow divider thru the valve back to the tank unless a spool is moved(handle pulled) if you have pressure with all handles in neutral then you have excess flow restriction or a plumbing error. Fitting sizes can effect flow as well,too small a fitting or elbow can also restrict flow. Small flow into a big fitting is OK but not the other way around..this backs up flow making pressure and heat which is what you are seeing.

#2 in a circuit with a power beyond valve,the PB valve should be the first valve in the circuit, a secondary flow will use the power beyond port off that PB valve to feed the second valves' flow input. When you actuate the power beyond valve, the second circuit has it's flow interuppted and the first circuit (w/power beyond valve) gets the flow. When you let off the first in line power beyond valve and it pops back to neutral position, the flow to the second valve resumes. My power beyond valve runs my articulated steer function,the power beyond flow goes to my loader valve. When I steer, my loader functions pause (except bucket down) until my steer valve is neutralled again. The power beyond valve does not regulate flow, it just steers it from one valve downstream from it or not..the priority flow is the one plumbed to the P.B.valve itself. Either a valve is power beyond or not..there is nothing you can add to a non-power beyond valve unless it has the capability from the factory with a PB plug port built in like the one in my photo.The photo of your yellow valve looks like a standard two-spool valve with a relief valve(silver long hex barrel above the inlet port) on the input side..what is going on with the tee and smaller hose on the input port is beyond me.

#3 the 20hp Kohler isnt any different than the 18hp Briggs when it comes to turning a pump, as long as the rotation is correct..most small gas engines turn the same,CCW which means you need a CW pump if direct coupled. I think you have some valve adaptations that werent carried out correctly..you need to troubleshoot the hydraulic schematic front to back to see if there are changes to it.again my guess from here is you have some valving mods that were plumbed or valves routed incorrectly.
#4 some parts are starting to trickle in,only via FedEx or UPS..USPS is all mucked up right now,total BS,they have bad apples in the District Heights Wash.DC sorting center..and some vendors dont ask your preferred shipment method..USPS was stellar in delivering small parcels in the past but since the changes everything is screwed up. I'm almost 30days stuck in USPS on some parts..the ridiculousness continues.Even with Informed Delivery and starting a inquest w/USPS the issues persist..They blame it on Covid and package volume..not the case at all.

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I questioned the mess of tees in your lines right off the bat! --- something in your hose routing is off back feeding something. PLEASE do testing before you kill your new pump! ---- wont take much to kill it too if problem not solved quickly!
Testing will take time and be messy BUT should point you to the problem child in a short order.
The tall silver nut would be just the relief valve as Bunk says--- I agree---your valve looks like a standard one.
If unit wasnt plumbed to plans, and the builder just started hooking hoses to whatever----- well, easy to hook to wrong places,----even accidently this can happen, so you need to trace each hose starting at pump out port and work downstream from there, AND while you are at it git rid of them damn tees in the return lines!!!! --- EACH return line should have its own fitting/hose in the tank---5 returns need 5 seprate lines/fittings in the tank. I had an Oliver combine that had 8 return lines back to the tank on it because it ran most of the machine by hyd.---- this is just an example of the factory setups that I have run into---- had to be a reason for the way they did it cause the combine never got hot at all, so it worked!
Keep us posted on your progress and what you decide on! --- We understand the bad feelings toward the machine, but its the original builders screw-ups falt, not the machine! --- You CAN straighten it out!!

Last edited by sonny; 12/20/2020 02:07 PM.

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sonny #1874 12/20/2020 08:38 PM
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Sonny,
Thanks for the kind words and advice. I have been studying the book/plans. The main return puts all returning fluid through the filter and then into the tank. On the Oliver combine, did each return have it's own filter? Or was the filter in the supply line to the pump? Did FPS go under...I was looking for images on the web and got very few for FPS?Eastwood has a hydraulic flaring tool that can make just about any kind of flare, so that has me tempted to replace as many flexible lines as possible while I'm sorting this all out. But there are other tools that tempt me more!

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Good evening Bunkclimber,
Looking at the picture of your valve...It is a single spool, correct? If the power beyond line is not currently connected to the valve to control the additional spool valve It must just go to the return to the tank? How or why do the new plans show an additional flow divider? It is confusing. So far the plans haven't helped. I asked Sonny already, but did FPS go out of business. Very little info available on line about them.

If a spool is in the neutral position, fluid just flows right through to the power beyond or the return line? there's no pressure in the valve until the valve is used to activate a circuit? Tomorrow will be a better day to work, hopefully.

Now...the USPS...When I carried in Arlington, VA mail volume was huge..probably at the apex. People would complain about delays in their mail service to Congressman Frank Wolfe . Then he go do an "unannounced" tour of Merrifield...the processing plant for Northern VA. He'd never find any delayed mail and he'd go back to D.C. Then we would get hammered with volume. My worst day was when I took 36 feet of mail out for delivery. That's nearly 6 times my height and well over my weight! Plus parcels. Speaking of which, back then Fingerhut was the main player in shop by mail. We had Fingerhut days. We had parcels out the wazoo on those days. Today, every day seems like a Fingerhut day to the carriers. Today, some outfits put gps trackers in their packages. That should be an additional service offered to regular customers.

There is internal tracking for the USPS only and it is way more detailed than what you can see online. There are events that happen before we get your package from Surplus Center.
The label being created is the first event.
Next we see when the item leaves Surplus Center.
Then there is an arrival scan.
Then it is scanned as it goes into a container
That container is scanned before it is loaded onto a truck
There's a scan when the truck leaves the facility.
For dock transfers to another truck there is a scan
there's a scan when the package reaches the plant that serves your area
There is a scan when the package gets to your post office
there's a scan when the carrier leaves the office and then there is a scan at your house.

So, your local postmaster has detailed info available to them about your package. How good they are at utilizing the system is another story. All those scans only happen if everyone is able to scan when they are supposed to.

Till tomorrow

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I run all my returns to a header, the difference being that my return header is made from 1-1/2" steel pipe with big Tees for each flow to come back together. Then it all goes through a filter on the return before the tank. Now my machine is totally different than your as far as flows so those sizes aren't comparable. You could probably return all your flow through a 1" pipe.

Read what Bunk said 2 or 3 times. I am going to restate what he said. The pump only moves fluid. In a open hydraulic system, the pump only builds the pressure that it needs to to perform a particular function. If all the valves are in neutral (not pulled) and working correctly, the flow is simply going through the pump to a valve, then to another valve (power beyond) then back to the tank through the filter. In neutral this pressure should be low.

As said before it you try to pump 20 gpm through a 1/4" hose or fitting you will develop (just a guess example) 700 psi. The Horse power required for the pump to make 700 psi is based on the flow rate of the pump and the amount of flow, which is controlled by the displacement of the pump. If you exceed the HP of the engine it will bog down. If you take that same 1/4" restriction and remove it and install a 3/4 hose the pressure may go to 100 psi (again just a guess example). This lowers the engine HP required and keeps fluids cool.

This is why we have asked you for the neutral valve positions to see if you have a restriction. You need to do that test, and you need to post a pic of how you plump the pressure gauge because I want to make sure you have it in the right location.

So in the example above lets say you are getting 900 psi on your inlet line to the first valve with it in neutral, and when you deadhead the lift all the way to the top the pressure goes up to 2500. That would mean that your lowest pressure you will ever see is 900 which is too much, it would also mean that your pressure relief on that valve is set to 2500. When you dead head the cylinder, the pump is still pumping but the fluid can't go to the tank because its directed to the cylinder. The pressure will quickly build. If you didn't have a relief valve it would quickly break something or stall the pump/engine. Since that doesn't happen (usually), what is happening is that when the pressure reaches a certain point the relief valve opens and lets the fluid go back to the tank. This will keep happening till the valve is released.

Now you have a flow divider. That means that you have one flow from the pump that is being split by the divider. Basically the divider puts a certain amount of fluid to each circuit. That fluid then flows as described above.

Your problem could be on either side of your flow divider, the only way to know is to see what is generating the pressure when it shouldn't be. Pressure = heat buildup

You need to check the following and write down the results, and let us know what you get.

1. Put Tee with pressure gauge into line from pump to flow divider.

Neutral pressure
wheel valve forward pressure
wheel valve reverse pressure

steering valve pressure in each direction dead headed

lift valve dead head pressure any direction

2. Put Tee with pressure gauge between the flow divider and the wheel valve

Neutral pressure
wheel valve forward pressure
wheel valve reverse pressure

steering valve pressure in each direction dead headed

lift valve dead head pressure any direction

3. Put Tee with pressure gauge between the flow divider and the steering valve
Neutral pressure
wheel valve forward pressure
wheel valve reverse pressure

steering valve pressure in each direction dead headed

lift valve dead head pressure any direction

4. Put Tee with pressure gauge between the steering valve and the lift valve
Neutral pressure
wheel valve forward pressure
wheel valve reverse pressure

steering valve pressure in each direction dead headed

lift valve dead head pressure any direction

5. Put Tee with pressure gauge after the wheel valve outlet before it Tees into anything else

Measure the neutral pressure
Measure the pressure when operating the valve on the lift at dead head

6. Put Tee with pressure gauge after the last valve on the steering/lift side but before the common return

Measure the neutral pressure
Measure the pressure when operating the valve on the lift at dead head,
Measure the pressure when operating the wheel valve

Now all this may not be possible based on your connections or practical, but if you get all this info I think we will be able to point to your problem immediately.


Also post some pics of your whole machine with all the lines visible. Hard to help with just a pic of the valve.


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Look at the thread of my build PDF 8, page 1, zoom in on the first pic you cam see my return stack and filter.

Look at PDF 9, page 6 and 7. To see my loader valve. I added my steering valve after the loader valve, was originally using the first spool as steering. Since I had the loader valve first, it is the power beyond. I am trying to find that pic on photobucket so I can mark what each line does for you, but they want me to pay so I have to download all my pics and put them somewhere else.. The tank returns are joined, with the same size pipe that is incoming.

http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=310#Post310

Last edited by GatorS; 12/21/2020 12:09 AM.

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Kevin,
The power beyond valve is a stock 4-way hydraulic valve when shipped to you it has a SOLID plug threaded in the power beyond port with machined steps on the inside of the plug that redirect flow inside the valve..when you unscrew that plug out and replace it with a power beyond plug,which is ported with either 1/2" or 3/4" threads THEN it gives you a second circuit..there are steps machined into the plugs that set up the flow inside the valve when you thread the plug into it. You have to replace the P.B. plug in the valve if you are not using that flow for anything..plugging it off without the original block-off plug will cause issues inside the valve I do believe with the relief valve routing INSIDE the valve.

If the P.B.valve is in neutral position, yes the flow goes right thru the P.B.valve out the PB port onto the next valve in line..thats how my loader works,it uses the pump flow thru the P.B.valve's PB port to feed the 3-section loader valve..if the P.B.valve handle is pulled the flow goes to the P.B.valve steering function(priority)and flow stops to the downstream loader valve.The downstream valve can always pass fluid out of a valve section back to the tank regardless,this is just dumping pressure back to the return line(like the loader mast returning to the ground)-pressure flow not necessary for that.Try to raise the bucket you will have nothing until the steering circuit P.B.valve is neutralled then flow resumes to the P.B.port to do work with the downstream loader valve.

Minimal pressure in any and all circuits on my machine with valves neutralled (loader and steer are one pump section, propulsion drive is another pump section-its a 2-section pump) I hope I clarified that my machine is a total one-off custom design articulated,not a Cadtrac design,altho the hydraulics are similar in operation.I have no flow dividers,just two pump circuits which is a bit more efficient than using a flow divider to split flows from one pump.I have three returns,one for the PB steering valve,one for the downstream loader valve,and one return for the propel valve.All returns are direct run back to the tank,but two are manifolded like Gator mentioned..but right at the tank with 3/4" full-flow tees.

I'm highly suspect that you have an improper valve or connection which is causing your heating issues,the picture of your valve-on the valve port the tee'd off line looks as tho one hose line is reduced in size..you shouldnt be building heat in the system until about an hour or more of operation..even then it shouldnt be reaching 200degF that quickly. I can run my machine for two hours straight moving pallets around and it only just starts to get warm..No oil coolers and Im running a ISO46 weight hyd oil, similar to 30W but has additives.I dont think the fluid(oil) is your issue. Anyway,you should not have a valve feeding another valve from a valve return port..spend some time checking your hose routing,maybe draw it up on paper with what you have and see.

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Gator,---Bunk! ,---you guys are much better at xplainin this stuff than I am! --- Thanks!
I think if Kevin can get some pix. of his entire machine and the hose/valve setup it would really help. How bout the pix first of the hose/pump/valve routing? --- might be something right off the go that is visible like hose in wrong place.
Gator--- Photobucket wont even let me in to get pix. now---locked out completely unless I pay that $400 a year for use----THAT aint hapinin! lol! --- Jim uses Flickr--I have a few on there but prefer to just re-size my pix in paint to 640 x 480 and post direct from my computer. --- Dont have a clue what you would do from phone to resize them since we dont use phone for anything cept calls.
Kevin,--- I dont remember where the filter was on the Oliver, ---- been too many years crs setting in lol!
I had found a few places on the internet that show hyd. diagram setups, dont know if any of them are helpful in this case or not.

MOST of our packages come Fed-Ex. here --used to be UPS --- might just be where we order from happens to use Fed-Ex. The postal packages we do get do seam to get here in reasonable time----still WAY slower than Fed or Ups, but do get here! lol!


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Hydraulic Systems Basics - Toro

Try this in your search box---- it has a lot of simple diagrams to look at.

Last edited by sonny; 12/21/2020 01:05 PM.

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Gator, Bunk and Sonny,
I began pressure tests this afternoon. I did print out the testing procedures that I was supposed to follow, but it went missing on me. So I kind of winged it. Right outside the divider 700psi to the bucket valve. 400-500 to the travel valve. On the right side, out, after the bucket valve still 700 psi. Now I need to warm up. Question. Should the hoses from the "T"s all be the same length. Gut tells me that they should all be the same length, but what do I know?
Any thoughts on the lopsided pressure after the 50/50 rotary flow divider.? I know I need more places checked. If the out on the right is feeding at 700 psi into the in on the left that's only getting 400 psi from the rotary divider. what kind problems should that create?? I don't know if I can get the testing done properly tomorrow. We are supposed to get 5+ inches of snow tonight. I agree that something has to be plumbed wrong or a hose has deteriorated and caused an internal blockage some where.

Most of the fittings on the machine so far are the JIC 8 size. From the valves to the cylinders or motors look to be the smaller JIC 6..



Last edited by Kevin Werner; 12/21/2020 06:57 PM. Reason: needed to add info.
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Is that with any valves active? Open center, you shouldn't see much of any pressure until you put a load on it.

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unless you have a filter installed somewhere inline and it's clogged-(even so there's usually a pop-off bypass built-into the filter)-you still shouldnt be seeing anywhere near 700psi..there's where your heat is coming from..you have a restricted fitting somewhere or something mis-plumbed backing the system up to see those pressures no load..my guess is a hose misrouted and mis-connected.

GLyford #1887 12/21/2020 08:25 PM
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No active valves...all in center/neutral position.

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Brand new filter...Hastings I think. .

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As for power beyond...there are flat spots on the valves where they could have been machined for power beyond functions. There are no power beyond functions to either valve.

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