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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2187 02/05/2021 11:59 AM
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GatorS Offline
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This is the valve I have for my drive motor. Not saying you need this but this is what I have.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...Motor-Valve-w-Flow-Control-9-7497-30.axd

On my machine I have a 2 spool pump, one flow goes to the motor valve one flow goes to everything else. You have a flow splitter so you have two flows also.

On the side of my hydraulics that goes to the steering and the drives, the fluid enters a single spool valve that has power beyond.

The power Beyonce outlet goes into a 4 spool valve. Spool 1 is loader up and down, spool 2 is loader tilt, spool 3 is aux hydraulics 1, spool 4 is aux hydraulics 2. Then it's return goes to the tank return header.

The way this works is if I am actively steering I can't move the loader, but if the steering valve is neutral I have flow to the 4 spool valve and all my functions. I figured steering is more important than lifting.

On the drive motor side I only have one drive motor and one Valve. The flow goes to the valve, to the pump, back to the valve and to the tank. Applying this to you your down stream splitter is all downstream of the valve so this arrangement should work. I was under the pressio that your second splitter acts like a positive differential between the front and back wheels.


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2188 02/05/2021 12:00 PM
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This is the valve I have for my drive motor. Not saying you need this but this is what I have.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...Motor-Valve-w-Flow-Control-9-7497-30.axd

On my machine I have a 2 spool pump, one flow goes to the motor valve one flow goes to everything else. You have a flow splitter so you have two flows also.

On the side of my hydraulics that goes to the steering and the lift
functions , the fluid enters a single spool valve that has power beyond that does the steering.

The power Beyond outlet goes into a 4 spool valve. Spool 1 is loader up and down, spool 2 is loader tilt, spool 3 is aux hydraulics 1, spool 4 is aux hydraulics 2. Then it's return goes to the tank return header.

The way this works is if I am actively steering I can't move the loader, but if the steering valve is neutral I have flow to the 4 spool valve and all my functions. I figured steering is more important than lifting.

On the drive motor side I only have one drive motor and one Valve. The flow goes to the valve, to the pump, back to the valve and to the tank. Applying this to you your down stream splitter is all downstream of the valve so this arrangement should work. I was under the pressio that your second splitter acts like a positive differential between the front and back wheels.

Last edited by GatorS; 02/05/2021 05:33 PM.

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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: GatorS] #2195 02/05/2021 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by GatorS
This is the valve I have for my drive motor. Not saying you need this but this is what I have.

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydra...Motor-Valve-w-Flow-Control-9-7497-30.axd

On my machine I have a 2 spool pump, one flow goes to the motor valve one flow goes to everything else. You have a flow splitter so you have two flows also.

On the side of my hydraulics that goes to the steering and the drives, the fluid enters a single spool valve that has power beyond.

The power Beyond outlet goes into a 4 spool valve. Spool 1 is loader up and down, spool 2 is loader tilt, spool 3 is aux hydraulics 1, spool 4 is aux hydraulics 2. Then it's return goes to the tank return header.

The way this works is if I am actively steering I can't move the loader, but if the steering valve is neutral I have flow to the 4 spool valve and all my functions. I figured steering is more important than lifting.

On the drive motor side I only have one drive motor and one Valve. The flow goes to the valve, to the pump, back to the valve and to the tank. Applying this to you your down stream splitter is all downstream of the valve so this arrangement should work. I was under the pression that your second splitter acts like a positive differential between the front and back wheels.

I'm shocked that you aren't using a a divider of any sort to be able to drive and manipulate the bucket. Love the mini hoe having a separate hyd. system for the loader and the hoe but I had to do it the onboard system just wouldn't hold enough oil. There is still a small cylinder in that system for a 3pt hitch but it'll never get used with the back hoe attached.


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2203 02/05/2021 05:07 PM
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That above came out different from what I meant. My steering and loader functions are on one section of my pump, the wheel drive circuit is on a seperate section of the pump. The flows come back together before a filter and dumping into the tank


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2204 02/05/2021 06:30 PM
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I have two flows, just the same as Gator's machine, one flow is propel thru a standard 4way cylinder valve and one other flow does the steer with power beyond for the loader..Im so used to running it now I really dont notice the loader not moving when steering like when moving snow,lifting and turning..I can turn and use the loader by 'jabbing' the steer valve to steer in short movements..I just concentrate on the loader movements and steering as necessary..I dont have room for a flow divider in my chassis as its very tight already..I was looking for a 3section pump but that goes to a whole new level of expense..so I keep what I have-it works.FWIW I had the Brand Hydraulics motor valve on my machine fro the propel circuit but broke it permanently so I went back to a standard cylinder valve..

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2220 02/08/2021 11:01 AM
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KEVIN!! --- hey,-- can you take some pix of the different sections of the hose and valve parts of your loader and post them? ---You can even e-mail them to Gator, Jim, or I and we will post them for you! This will GREATLY help figure out what some of the problems are on your machine.
Just curious ------ but do you have 4 drive motors or just one? I saw somewhere that cad uses 4. That would require a lot more hoses and give more areas for problems to arise from. Thanks!


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: GatorS] #2223 02/08/2021 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GatorS

The power Beyonce outlet

Gator I've never seen a power 'Beyonce' outlet..is that pipe thread? LOL

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2234 02/09/2021 01:59 AM
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Wasnt that a model? or singer? or whatever? LOL!! --- Think he meant beyond ! lol!


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2235 02/09/2021 04:11 AM
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Yes she's a singer.
I think Gator corrected himself in the second post..I was just elbow'in him a bit in good spirit

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2237 02/09/2021 09:16 AM
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I corrected a couple of things in my reply. its all in good spirit. he musta been listening to Beyonce while he was writing the post.


I know a lot about a lot of things BUT I still have a lot to learn.
Life is what you make of it. So, why not make a working machine to make it easier.
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2239 02/09/2021 10:38 AM
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I can’t believe y’all don’t have a power Beyoncé on your loaders. That’s the French/soul version of a power beyond.....gives your loader better dance moves.

Honestly I couldn’t tell you one thing she sings. I mostly listed to sports radio and talk radio..


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2241 02/09/2021 11:38 AM
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THATS what makes MBN what it is!! LOL! -----GREAT GUYS!! ---- Great times had by all! --- its easy to think one thing and type something else! -- happens to me all the time! Also my stiff fingers get stuck between 2 keys and I get both letters on the screen. Tried to find a keyboard with bigger keys ---- no luck so far! I try to read over what I wrote before I hit post, but always miss something! sometimes it can change the whole meaning of a post!! LOL!!


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2242 02/09/2021 01:00 PM
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I had typed that on my phone and it autocorrected power beyond to power Beyonce...

I fixed it when I went back to clarify what I meant when Jim questioned me. I saw the Beyonce then...

I have been Talking to Kevin some on FB messanger, he has some health issues that make it difficult for him to get more info. He is working on getting some pics to us to help show the setup.

Last edited by GatorS; 02/09/2021 01:01 PM.

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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2243 02/09/2021 06:51 PM
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case of beer says we could have it fixed in a weekend with a handful of fittings maybe a hose or two..prolly get into some trouble testing it out LOL..kinda want to see him use it with ease before snow season ends

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2245 02/09/2021 11:55 PM
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we've been playing with this stuff most of our life if not all of it. We could probably get it going with ball valves HA HA HA. we really need to see what it has for plumbing parts and how they're all hooked together.


I know a lot about a lot of things BUT I still have a lot to learn.
Life is what you make of it. So, why not make a working machine to make it easier.
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2247 02/10/2021 07:33 AM
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my long winded answer/suspicion was the original builder salvaged the wrong valves and/or other parts to repair it after a problem..replumbed it after 5-6 adult beverages and didnt understand what was going on..it's not that complex of a system..Kevin threw some good money at it for a new pump,which will benefit him if he keeps the machine,and the loader valve is nice as well..move that over to the loader side of the hydraulics and even just put a std 4-way valve on the propel motors circuit and see what happens..check pressures FWIW we'll see for sure

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: bunkclimber] #2248 02/10/2021 08:53 AM
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Thank you for your assistance, one and all. I am going to order a new splitter and a new divider today since the divider was never there and there seems to be something wrong in one of the circuits coming out of the splitter that still generates back pressure and heat at the pump. I have a valve I can use (hopefully) to control fwd/bkwd travel that is supposed to be on the floor panel. I will let you fellas know how that works out when I get it done.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2288 02/19/2021 05:21 PM
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I went to put the new flow divider on and it is about 1.5 inches too long to fit where the original is. Dag nabbit! I could bolt in another ,wider, piece of angle iron in or weld a piece on the original piece, so I guess I'll be headed into the blacksmith shop tomorrow or next week for some supplies.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2289 02/19/2021 06:09 PM
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Kevin watch this video.

This one is theory
Hydraulic Basics - 01

These next two will help you
Hydraulic Basics - 02


Hydraulic Basics - 03


After you watch those, you can search youtube for "Hydraulics Basics - XX" with the XX being 01,02,03 etc. Good info in this series. The other videos go into motors pumups etc

Last edited by GatorS; 02/19/2021 06:19 PM.

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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2291 02/20/2021 07:47 AM
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Kevin try to get some numbers or model id's off the valve casting and google it-be sure what valve you have you can use with your system. You could also look at the valve photos on SC to possibly match up the vendor/valve series. When you do fire the system up again, you could lower the relief valve setting to prevent any startup disasters-the relief will open up before anything blows up and save you hassle and money of replacement parts..just a thought
Best of luck.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2292 02/20/2021 11:43 AM
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Another thing to consider Kevin is if safe and reasonable you might hook your flow divider up and zip tie it in place before welding new brackets. You should be able to test it that way before you spend the effort to modify it and it maybe not work.


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: bunkclimber] #2294 02/21/2021 02:56 PM
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What fun is it if nothing explodes? It should have self destructed in some way with the old pump in it when it was hitting well over 200 degrees right outside the pump!

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2295 02/21/2021 06:05 PM
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Kevin at the bare minimum wear a good pair of safety glasses when working with charged circuits and fittings..the fine spray of pressurized fluid can penetrate the skin and cause serious issues with your health. Be careful and use respect working with these systems.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2297 02/22/2021 12:13 PM
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I hate HYDRAULIC fluid showers. Get plenty from failing hoses and seals.


I know a lot about a lot of things BUT I still have a lot to learn.
Life is what you make of it. So, why not make a working machine to make it easier.
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2298 02/22/2021 06:50 PM
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Got a face full one time from a backhoe when a hose broke right in front of me---knocked me off the seat! That stuff shows no mercy!


"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands."
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2310 02/25/2021 10:18 PM
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Considering that just water under high pressure can cut stone....pressurized fluid is right dangerous. Cutting oils and I don't agree too much with my skin, so I do try to keep gloves and a shield between me and them.. I got a new bracket/shelf made to hold the new geared splitter and got the fittings to mate it into my machine. No welding, just bolts on and the new splitter bolts on to it. I thought about the idea of zip tying it down for a temporary fitment, but since it will be a permanent item, I made a permanent bracket for it. Tomorrow should be good weather...wish me luck.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2311 02/25/2021 11:15 PM
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GOOD LUCK


I know a lot about a lot of things BUT I still have a lot to learn.
Life is what you make of it. So, why not make a working machine to make it easier.
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2313 02/26/2021 02:22 AM
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Gloves won't help with a hydraulic injection. If you get a small crack in a hose it can be leaking so small that you can barely see it. That stream will inject through your gloves and into your skin. Google hydraulic injection injuries. Very bad stuff, anter that injection the hydraulic fluid poisons you and they have to split your arm from one end to the other to get it out.

Never touch a pressurized hose to try to check for leaks and if you do and you feel a sharp sting, you should head to the hospital.


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2328 02/28/2021 11:48 PM
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While i've never heard of anyone having a hydraulic injection, I have heard of people blowing off dust and dirt with compressed air and blasting a hole in themselves and inflting themselves like a balloon.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2329 03/01/2021 12:03 AM
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I have the travel valve now installed down stream of the flow divider. The new Concentric geared splitter is now installed . Sunday was a bust as it rained here all day. I have a couple hours work yet to get the loader valve installed. So I should have no more than 5gpm going through the travel valve. The loader valve should not get more than 10-11 gallons per minute and it is rated for quite a bit more. It has a power beyond option built into it. I should have a smooth runner after all this.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2330 03/01/2021 07:25 AM
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Kevin I'd also try switching the outputs around-use the 10gpm output for the propel and the 5gpm for the loader..Im using a 3.35gpm for my loader with 2"lift cylinders and its OK as far as speed,could use a little more-5gpm might be just about right..don't be afraid to switch them around if they have the same fittings-experiment with it....best of luck..hopefully a good outcome

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: bunkclimber] #2333 03/02/2021 12:16 PM
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Okay....I'd take pictures, but it would just look like a couple of squids fighting. I have the small divider right in front of the valve for fwd & bkwd &steering valve. 5 gpm may be fine for steering, but I think a 200 year old Galapagos Tortoise could beat me down the alley now. The loader valve is a little jumpy but with a light touch it is okay. I found out that one of the hoses coming from the geared divider needs replaced, like last winter. So that will be a trip to the hose shop. Apparently the machine needs the valve on the floor for foot control of speed and direction with a direct line to the geared divider so that it will get the 10gpm feed it needs to get out of its own way. I will check the temp at the pump later today. I just had it running for a good long while, and the output, at the pump, was 54*. I take that to mean the the geared divider originally on the machine was failing some how. I will take it apart for inspection when I take the original pump apart as well. Now for the $64,000 question: If I use the 2 circuit valve for 1 circuit should I just plug the unused circuit or would it be better to loop those outlets together with a steel line...there shouldn't be any flow required from that circuit, either option would be just to keep dirt and rainwater from getting in there.

bunkclimber...I will try switching stuff around as soon as I get the correct fittings, and figure out where the divider can go.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2334 03/02/2021 12:29 PM
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I think you would need the 10 flow for the travel----- 5 would be painfully slow! ---- just my 02.


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: sonny] #2337 03/02/2021 03:18 PM
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Hello Sonny,
Yup, it is painfully slow. So now I have some more thinking to do. I'm just glad it is running cooler and not going to toast the new pump.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2338 03/02/2021 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Werner
Now for the $64,000 question: If I use the 2 circuit valve for 1 circuit should I just plug the unused circuit or would it be better to loop those outlets together with a steel line...there shouldn't be any flow required from that circuit, either option would be just to keep dirt and rainwater from getting in there.


By two circuit I am assuming you mean a two spool valve (which means that it has two handles and four work ports). If that is the case, just plug the two ports you are not using. You could also take the handle off. If you do hit it and it's plugged it will go to the relief pressure and then relieve. It won't hurt anything, but you wouldn't want to dead head it continiously. If you leave them open you would make a heck of a hydraulic fluid sprinkler eventually. Your favorite store Surplis center sells the plugs that you will need. Look at the specs on your valve and it will show the proper threads to match the plug to.


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Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2342 03/03/2021 01:43 AM
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I don't know why I used "circuits" instead of spools.????? There is a joy stick on the valve. I may just leave it as it is until Spring. Maybe, maybe not.

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2343 03/03/2021 07:11 AM
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you are correct Kevin in using the term 'circuits'-hydraulics in the sense of mobile hydraulic power use circuit patterns to route the fluid(oil) in and out of elements(pumps,valves,cylinders and motors) and then back to the tank. Spools are the actual ground and polished control rod parts of the valve that slide in and out of the valve body casting that make the fluid directional changes that control the flow. For my money I'd cap off the fittings on the unused valve ports so there is no possibility of a spool move creating a mess,or otherwise,contamination getting INTO the system.If you are going to place another oder for fittings get a few extra caps and 90's while you are at it that will fit your system hose sizes-put em in a drawer..never know when u might need em..cheaper than separate shipping and waiting on fittings FWIW

Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2346 03/03/2021 09:18 AM
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I agree with Bunk but don't be like me and forget where you put them.. I am working on getting all my Hydraulic stuff in 1 place. I keep finding BAGS of fittings that I must have received and just carried out to the shop and set on a shelf in a hurry. I really need to take inventory of all of it too. Thought I had fittings for that loader valve I got on AMAZON because it was cheap... nothing I have fits properly so I'm going to order some.. I fear it's just SHIT china machining...


I know a lot about a lot of things BUT I still have a lot to learn.
Life is what you make of it. So, why not make a working machine to make it easier.
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Kevin Werner] #2349 03/03/2021 01:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 33
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Old as Dirt Offline
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Posts: 33
Kevin

Circuits is an excellent way to visualize hydraulics systems. As a complete numbnuts on hydraulic functioning it helps me.

Jim

I can sympathize with you on throwing stuff on the shelf and forgetting. Sometime ago there was some discussion on HSM (I think) about Chinese induction heaters. Looked on Bangood, found one for about $20, bought it, worked like a charm. I had to replace the transmission drive belt on my Cub. Instruction is to remove fan/drive pulley pull off old & put on new belt. Easy if the damn transmission had a decent nut on the input shaft. Aha, perfect place to use my heater to remove nut.

Now four+ months later I still have not found it, don't have a F'g clue where it is. I am assuming the heater got dumped into the round file There are hand held heaters available in the $200 range the Chinese heater will accomplish the same thing using a 12V battery or two.

I have been attempting to organize my stuff into a semblance of order to cut down on on on the search for stuff that should come to hand easily. Minimal success!

JLG


James Geraci
Re: Cadtrac over heating [Re: Old as Dirt] #2350 03/03/2021 04:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 53
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Kevin Werner Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 53
Easiest way to find a lost tool is to buy a replacement. The original will show up just as soon as the replacement is no longer returnable!

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